$700 for ONE piano sample!!!! Question: So for that kind of bread, where's the beef?What do you think about this mother of all Bos samples? Is the result convincing from the listener's standpoint? That is, do you think the sample-in the right hands-just might make a totally convincing solo piano recording? A recording that is indistinguishable from the real thing?Answer: happily we can directly compare a modern BOS recording with the Vienna.
Valentina Lisitsa appears to have a lot of the Chopin Etudes up at YOUTUBE. So this (in my view pretty fantastic live recordings on a Bos) can be directly compared with BACO's account on the Bos Sample.Here's a Lisitsa link for opus 25 no. 7: (a rear tear jerker, and please don't get side-tracked by the performer, who is well. Let's face it. Drop dead gorgeous)Here's a midi-sculpted version on the VSL BOS:Note: I'm not talking about playability here, because I doubt very many of us own this beast, or have taken it for a test drive.Note also: I'm not concerned about the interpretation, at least, I try to bracket as much of that as I can.Note finally: don't forget to adjust the volume levels of each to make them comparable!This is mostly a slow piece. So you get to compare the sample in an uncrowded sonic framework.
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The sample, I think, in this context, does a terrific job. But the sample gets into big trouble when the quick runs begin, in my view. I'm not sure whether that's a midi-sculpting issue or a fault in the sample.What do you think?Jg. John, I own the VSL Vienna Imperial, Ivory II, EW and many others. The VSL Vienna Imperial is by far the most playable in its responsiveness and rich in tone.
Ivory II German Steinway is a close second and also has a lovely softer tone. To protect myself against libel, I won't say anything about the 'other' one. These two stand on a pinnacle high above the others in terms of both sound and playability. Nothing else that I've played comes even close. The 100 velocity layers do make a significant difference in terms of responsiveness and playability. While I like the Ivory II German Steinway very much also, it has fewer velocity layers and you do notice this when comparing the two.
Although I enjoy using them both. I rarely use the others unless I want a special tone color or effect.What do you think sounds and plays the best? I own quite a few samples, EWQL, Garritan (for which there's a demo by me i think), Black Grand, White Grand, The World's Biggest (a Yammy), PMI Bos, The Old Lady (etc etc by Post), pretty much all the original Giga stuff, and more. I don't have any Ivory stuff, my main beef being that I wasn't at all convinced by any of the demos that it would 'fool' anyone for classical. Ditto with EQWL, which I bought anyway, and in fact ALL the samples out there EXCEPT Black and Wet PMI, with the latter having the edge.Of course, the PMI Bos is fantastically limited and crude in many ways by current standards.
Less so with the Black. The the PMI locks you into a reverberant 60s piano recording. No clarity, compared to the VSL I'm listening to here. Nonetheless, completely and utterly convincing AS a budget label classical recording. Just no way to tell it's not real, in terms of the recorded result.I must say that I immediately like what I hear in this sample, at least in a note by note setting. But I am now in the throes of doing a thorough test via ALL the Etudes Lisitsa as the benchmark and vsl as the contender. How convincing is it played loud and nasty, for example?
The vsl demo, on initial listening, sounded tinny and crowded up top, boomy and fake at the bottom where loud buzy music is being played. But that could very easily be a sequencing issue; so I now have to get to work and do some in depth listening.JG. It sound like you have better ears for timbre than I do. All the pianos you mentioned sound pretty convincing to me if played well. They sound like recordings of pianos, which they are.In my mind, unlooped, unstretched, 24 bit software pianos differ in the type of piano that was sampled, the recording mic position, and the playability factors (half pedal, repedalling, noises, sympathetic resonance, etc). Some are difficult to play well, but to my ears they usually don't differ in terms of the tone itself being realistic.I do see what you are saying about the reverb, though. Convolution reverbs are good compared to what we hear in digital pianos, but not compared to the real McCoy.
I own quite a few samples, EWQL, Garritan (for which there's a demo by me i think), Black Grand, White Grand, The World's Biggest (a Yammy), PMI Bos, The Old Lady (etc etc by Post), pretty much all the original Giga stuff, and more.Yeah, I have all of those as well. Of the ones above that you mention, I used to use the Black Grand. And that fits nicely with orchestral instruments too and has a nice small foot print. But its not even close in terms of dynamic range and playability so I rarely use it any more.
VSL and Ivory II German Grand just feel closer to the real deal. Yes, better by a large margin I would say. Some of those DP's have nice sounds, but they are all highly compressed, processed, and looped. Also the effects (like reverb and resonances)are lower quality.
And they aren't sampled from as nice an original piano in my opinion, but there could be varying opinions on that point.Basically digital pianos, even the higher end ones, have very little space to store samples and very little computing power to drive them, so almost any software piano will likely sound better. That really is hard to comprehend. Imagine going to all that trouble making 60,000+ samples and not incorporating half-pedalling! What, did they get too tired to finish it off, and just decided to release it?I agree.
I have had this question about several software pianos. It makes me wonder if VST's like this are put together by people who really know sounds but don't play piano (or intended for an audience with those characteristics). So much focus on good tone, so little on a few necessary features!Re: The Vienna Imperial Grand sample: any good? How good?01/30/12 02:14 AM 01/30/12 02:14 AMJoined: May 2011Posts: 126.